Thanksgiving 2024 flight delays; laser alerts in D.C. restricted airspace

Jessie Naor (00:00)

Good morning and welcome to the VIP seat. Today is November 28th. Happy Thanksgiving to all of our listeners. Top stories today in private aviation include how pair of corporate flight attendants are suing for overtime and how AI and lasers may be used to keep you out of DC airspace soon.

Our hosts today include yours truly, Jessie Naor and our co-host today, Sierra Lund. Sierra, welcome to the show.

Sierra Lund (00:22)

Thank you for having me.

Jessie Naor (00:23)

So excited. All right, folks,

back, buckle up, and let's take off.

So once again, the commercial pilot retirement age is coming up. Now that all the political winds have shifted, shall we say, in Congress and the House, Senator Marcia Blackburn and her colleagues wrote a letter supporting the argument that experienced pilots have fewer accidents than junior pilots. So we know earlier this year, this was a big debate that kind of got squashed at the time to move the retirement age up.

But, Sierra, what do you think? know, should we be changing it? Should we leave it alone? Thoughts?

Sierra Lund (01:06)

Let them work. Let them work. I love it. I love it. It's gonna happen. of these years that they bring it up because I don't remember a time where they haven't brought it up. So I feel like it's gonna happen eventually. And if you pass medical, you can pass medical.

Jessie Naor (01:24)

That's my whole point. That's why we have the medical system. If you're not capable, that should disqualify you from being a commercial pilot. I can't remember where this came from, but ICAO has changed their directive. Argentina just announced they're removing limits altogether. That was just announced this week as well. So yeah, if someone can fly, it's so subjective.

I think this is one of the only places in the world that we discriminate based on age. You know, that it's like allowed to discriminate based on age and I don't know why we can't just let them fly airplanes.

Sierra Lund (01:56)

think let them work. I mean, I'm a general aviation pilot for fun. And so a lot of the people I fly with are retired airline pilots and they're healthier than some of the 20 year olds that I fly with. I don't really see a reason why they couldn't. And I know that if they could still work, they probably would. and then you look at all of the incidents that commercial aviation's had. Even the past year, it's been some pretty bad press. No, it's not all in the pilots, but.

Jessie Naor (02:10)

and

Yeah.

Sierra Lund (02:26)

The staff is pretty junior from what I hear at the airlines. And that's, it's never comforting. So I say let them work.

Jessie Naor (02:36)

Yeah, well, there's so many pros and cons, I think, when you separate to business aviation versus commercial flying. One of the things I've always said is, if there's a mandatory retirement age of 65, great, come fly in business aviation, because we don't care. You can fly for as long as you want to here. So in some ways, it could harm us if the airlines are allowed to fly older, but at the same time, I feel like people should just be able to...

to work if they want to work and I don't think that's a good excuse to kind of keep them from the industry, you know.

Sierra Lund (03:08)

We would definitely like to steal all of the awesome retiring pilots after they're done and maybe they want to take a job just a little bit later but I say let them work until I'm flying fully private. Let them work. I want them up there.

Jessie Naor (03:22)

Yeah, well, and you know, we'll see. I mean, the House of Representatives, let's see, this was in July of 2023, the US House voted to increase the age to 67. But then in February 9th of this year, the Commerce Committee rejected only by one vote, 14 to 13 to reject it. So I have a feeling now that the winds have shifted toward the Republican Party, this might actually be happening next year.

I feel like the last time this kind of debate was happening, ALPA was very heavily engaged in blocking it, which also like you have to question because, right, the union should be representing older pilots too. Why are they blocking their opportunities to work? It's kind of a, it doesn't really fit.

Sierra Lund (04:04)

Totally, totally. I think it's cyclical too. It's whatever the airlines need at the moment. Right now they obviously need some more experience. So maybe it's a good time to up it. And I'm sure when they up it, we'll hear a couple years from now, we'll be talking about them wanting to lower it again. it is what it is. It is funny to see such young flight crews now. I'm always amazed.

Jessie Naor (04:24)

Okay.

Sierra Lund (04:30)

just walking through hearts filled seeing such young captains. It's wild. Neither good nor good.

Jessie Naor (04:35)

Yeah. Well, too, feel like the more you age, the younger everybody looks, too. Like, I look at college students, I'm like, you're, you look like a child.

Sierra Lund (04:43)

Yeah. Now I still feel like I'm that age and then I talk to someone that is and I'm like, I guess I'm not anymore. That's, this is fun. That's right.

Jessie Naor (04:53)

no! It's the same with the other pilots. I'm like, okay, well, you know, I'm now twice the age of some of these flight crew members and that's kind of wild. But let them work. Let them work as long as they want to. If they can pass the medical, I'm behind it. Even if maybe, you know, it means we lose the retirees in private aviation, I think it'll settle out at some point.

Sierra Lund (05:02)

Yeah, it's to swallow for me at least.

totally.

Jessie Naor (05:18)

All right, well in our next story, this one's pretty fun. I used to be in the DC area, so I know DC airspace pretty well and how intense it can be. But the system that prevents people from flying into that special flight rules area is being upgraded. It's a company called Teleidoscope but they have a new AI powered camera system and it includes lasers that actually shine into someone's cockpit when they violated the airspace to give them a visual warning.

before the fighter jets come out to escort them out of the airspace. But this is actually pretty cool tech and I didn't realize the camera system they're currently using is like 20 years old. It was installed right after 9-11.

Sierra Lund (05:49)

Yeah.

is wild to me. I would have guessed they would have upgraded it at some point, but I guess now is the time.

Jessie Naor (06:04)

Yeah, you know, 100, cool $100 million to put this thing in.

Sierra Lund (06:08)

Right. That's right. No, I love it. think it's I'm always so interested to see AI actually being used in aviation. I feel like there's so many conversations around non piloted aircraft or only one pilot having to be in the aircraft for commercial travel. And I just don't really. And this is me. I'm in sales. I am not.

I'm not an engineer, so take this for what you will. But I think that AI fits so well into aviation and so well into defense. I don't think that means there's not pilots anymore. I just don't. I don't think public opinion or comfort is really going to get there. But there's a lot of new technology that I'm super excited about like this that's assisting pilots and, you know,

Jessie Naor (06:50)

Mm-mm.

Sierra Lund (07:03)

Defending DC airspace is not an easy task. I bet those alarm bells go off for those fighters. So if there's ever a technology that can kind of make their jobs easier and safer, I'm all about it. And I think it's really cool to see real AI technology be used in the right way.

Jessie Naor (07:08)

All the time.

Yeah, I look at it the same way too. Everyone's like, AI is coming for your jobs, but I'm a writer and a speaker, and I have been concerned about the writing thing. Like, okay, is this gonna eventually be able to produce what I produce in the same way? But I don't think that we're there yet, and I look at it just like in this situation, it's a tool to enhance what you already do. Being able to identify, is it a bird or a plane?

an AI system can do that much better than the human eyes. That makes total sense. That's a great application of this technology.

Sierra Lund (07:54)

No, I love it. And I, he said, there's so many technologies and people that know me are gonna roll their eyes, but I'm so excited about some of these technologies. Like, I don't know if you've heard of Skyryse my gosh, I can't shut up about them because I think that is where the future of AI should go in aviation. It's assisting pilots. It's making things safer for us. It's assisting us in what AI can definitely do better than the human, but there's still a human.

Jessie Naor (08:05)

Yes, yes

Okay.

Sierra Lund (08:22)

element to it, especially when you're talking about defending our country or being in a fighter jet. mean, there's an ethical issue there too. So you can't ever see just a robot taking over that job.

Jessie Naor (08:36)

Well, and for our listeners who may not be familiar, so Skyryse they're modifying now, I can't remember which platform it is, which helicopter? Okay, yeah, so they're modifying that (R-66) to basically make flying super easy, I guess, in some ways. The computer itself is really controlling the flight. You still have engagement with it, but it's not as difficult as going to Bell 407 school and everything about that cockpit.

Sierra Lund (08:42)

to some artistic physics.

Totally. It's basically making everything redundant. And I'm going to mess this up because I don't work for them. I just really, really like their product. But in layman's terms, I think it's really making that fly by wire. And when it's fly by wire, it's super redundant. And then when it is an emergency situation, the pilot can really focus. I mean, when you're just flying and I got to fly the Sim at Oshkosh, which was so awesome.

Jessie Naor (09:09)

Hahaha

Thank

Sierra Lund (09:32)

But when you're flying, you still have full control just as if you would flying anything else you would fly as a general aviation pilot. But when it comes to that emergency situation, the AI can really kick in and put safety parameters so that you can really focus on navigating and communicating. And the technology really does the aviating for you in that order. So it's really cool. I've experienced

I actually experienced an engine failure on takeoff when I was my first solo cross country as a student pilot. So I was 300 feet, landed on a golf course. So that was a very interesting experience, but I think that's what makes me really passionate about what they're doing is because, you know, I was blessed with really great instructors. I was also blessed with the ability to not freak out in an emergency.

Jessie Naor (10:10)

Greeks.

Sierra Lund (10:26)

and you never really know how you're gonna react until you get there. And it's just kind of a personality trait. And I know some emergency situations, you're not, if you're taking on so much at one time and you really only have a couple of seconds to make a decision, that's life or death. So AI can come in and really facilitate making those situations easier.

Jessie Naor (10:29)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sierra Lund (10:54)

for pilots, think we're gonna see a real shift in accidents and how people handle them. And that was certainly.

Jessie Naor (11:02)

Yeah, well talk about being thrown into the fire on your first solo.

Sierra Lund (11:07)

That was an interesting cross. It was the shortest cross country of my life. Let's put it that way.

Jessie Naor (11:11)

gosh. I hope they give you an automatic pass for that one, you know, like, okay, you're good, you've been through that, you got the thing down without injuring anyone, so.

Sierra Lund (11:15)

Yeah, that's right. That's it.

Yeah, my check ride, they did not have me do a simulated engine out, actually. They were like, you're good. We're good. We're little bit off topic, but all of this to say, I'm really excited about AI in the right way. I don't think that pilots would lose their jobs to robots, but I think we can definitely assist pilots in being safer and obviously.

Jessie Naor (11:27)

That's kind of them. That's kind. I care again. You figured that one out.

Sierra Lund (11:46)

God bless those guys that defend DC Airspace. That's a stressful job. So anything to take some of the stress off of them, definitely great.

Jessie Naor (11:51)

area.

Yeah, yeah, keep keeping everybody inside the envelope. You know, I think that's that's the goal. we look, we've even though this is AI, you know, we've had this evolution over time and aviation, you know, like it doesn't make sense to do everything if we have a better technology to do it for us in the first place. So enhancing and not stealing jobs.

Sierra Lund (12:14)

Totally.

Jessie Naor (12:16)

Well, speaking of losing jobs, this one's an interesting one. And just a reminder for any of the business owners and people managing payroll out there, there's a couple of flight attendants that were corporate flight attendants for Arthur Blank, who was the co-founder of Home Depot. His family office is being sued by a couple of flight attendants regarding some overtime pay issues.

In the claim, it states that they were improperly classified as exempt from overtime pay, and they were working as much as 90 hours per week versus your standard 40, and that on their days off, they were bombarded by calls and texts about travel and planning from the family office. Now, what's really interesting about this suit, you know, I think obviously, well, we'll have to see if the suit pays out. First of all, this is just accusations. We don't really know what happened, but...

There was another piece of the suit in which they claimed that the flight attendants had to, there was another flight attendant in the department that had a relationship with the aviation manager and we have to wonder, hmm, how much of this frustration came from that personal relationship versus the job they were doing. But man, I would hate to be reading this if I was that flight department.

Sierra Lund (13:30)

Yeah, this is a tough one. First of all, God bless our flight attendants. I don't think they get enough credit. as far as the workload that's put on them, think obviously pilots have rest periods and rest time that's mandatory. Flight attendants don't. There's not really those parameters to protect them, especially in corporate aviation. I I know they work their asses off on the commercial side too, but

corporate aviation, there's no real parameters to protect our flight attendants. So in that regard, I feel for them. I think some of this might be some flight department drama. There's a whole other side of the conversation. Maybe the flight attendants would have been working a little bit less had they had the help of the additional flight attendant on staff.

Jessie Naor (14:05)

Okay.

Yeah.

Sierra Lund (14:23)

But she seems to be a little busy, so...

Jessie Naor (14:24)

That was, yeah.

That was one of the claims is that basically, the third wasn't pulling her weight so they had to do all this extra work because she had this relationship. But gosh, it's full of drama and who knows what the truth of the situation. But I mean, you raise a good point. My mom was a flight attendant for, well, it was Piedmont back in the day, then US Air, you know, the golden age of airline flying, I think. But, you know, she always told me the same thing. It's like...

A lot of people look at us like we're just drink servers, but we serve a safety function. A lot of people don't understand that.

Sierra Lund (15:01)

Well, I mean, to deal with the general public for that long, I would need some rest. would need some mandatory rest for sure. And yet corporate aviation poses its own set of exhausting issues, I'm sure as well. And just the uncertainty of your schedule, I think at some point.

Jessie Naor (15:11)

Yeah. huh. Yeah.

Yeah.

Sierra Lund (15:28)

It's not my battle, but I hope that someone starts advocating for mandatory time off for flight attendants. But it'll be interesting to hear how this lawsuit pans out though, because I feel like there's two sides to every story. So we'll see whose side really comes out on top.

Jessie Naor (15:42)

yes.

Yeah, I mean, if I'm looking at this, imagine there's probably just a settlement to make this go away, to avoid the public drama, especially, you of a high profile person. But yeah, I don't know. But you really you need to be taking a look at, know, your labor practices. These were really high paid employees. think, you know, one of them was one hundred twenty six thousand dollars per year. And a lot of HR people go, OK, well, they're making that much. So they're an exempt employee. But, you know, my my former HR.

Sierra Lund (15:55)

Have a good one.

Jessie Naor (16:11)

guy would caution me, you know, you need to be careful with those designations. And when you get in these situations where, you know, the family office says, they need lobster. So you have to go out to Whole Foods at four o'clock in the morning and get it. Like that could all be hours worked. So it's fine until it's not.

Sierra Lund (16:28)

Yeah.

Totally. Well, and I think, you know, culture wise too, you want to make sure that your flight attendants are working, working their fair share, but also happy and want to stay because it's a lot more to onboard a new flight attendant and, you know, them to learn the practices, learn the client, learn what they like and assimilate with their group than to just keep your, your flight attendants happy.

Jessie Naor (16:54)

Yeah, yeah, and maybe the in-office relationship should be very low-key. No one should know about that.

Sierra Lund (17:01)

Yeah, limited low key, maybe none would be great.

Jessie Naor (17:05)

Or maybe none. mean, you know, things happen, but still, like, this is what lawsuits are made of.

Sierra Lund (17:12)

Totally . Totally .

Jessie Naor (17:13)

All right, so Boeing has had many issues over the last few years. It's trying to raise cash and focus on more of its core businesses, which means Jeppesen and ForeFlight are being spun off from the mothership. But what is crazy to me is that the two of them may be worth up to $8 billion, which is wild.

Sierra Lund (17:37)

It's wild what they paid for for flight back in 2019. It's a great investment by Boeing. Maybe they weren't focused on the right things, but they were the past couple of years, but they were really good at their investments. Whoever is running that department doing a great job.

Jessie Naor (17:42)

Yeah.

Yeah, it's kind of a shame because, you know, Jeppesen and ForeFlight, you know, it's saying that they were representing the highest margins of all the Boeing global service entities, 30 % margins. You would think that if you're struggling in other areas, you would hang on to your business units that are producing some good cash for you, but maybe they just need to raise the money for other projects or something internally that's going on. But yeah, dang, let's see, ForeFlight.

estimated to be worth 1 billion, Jeppesen worth 7 billion. Software is the game right now to play.

Sierra Lund (18:33)

Well, I mean, I don't know a pilot that doesn't use Garmin or ForeFlight every day. So it's kind of something that we rely on now. It's almost a necessity when you go up in the air now. So whoever buys that is gonna do great. They won't have any problems. They're not going anywhere.

Jessie Naor (18:50)

Yeah, well, it was so dominant too. I you look at, you know, think foreflight has kind of done to aviation what like the Microsoft Office suite did in the business world. Like who doesn't use it? Like it's such a necessity. And man, it is so magical. I mean, you just plug, plug, plug and then just all this. I'm not, I'm not a pilot. So, but I've seen like my husband use it. He's a helicopter pilot and it's amazing. You know, what this, what these systems do these days.

Sierra Lund (19:18)

I'm so glad that I got my license after ForeFlight and Garmin were a thing because prior to when, you know, back when they had to use VORs and all of that craziness, you know, you have to learn it for private pilot. But if you'd asked me to do one now, I'd...

Jessie Naor (19:29)

Uh-huh.

Sierra Lund (19:36)

I'd fail that test for sure. So definitely relying on it now.

Jessie Naor (19:38)

my gosh. So I did go to, I went to air traffic control school and we had to do like ground school. So I still, I still remember how to, you know, run all those numbers and everything, but no, it was not fun. The old, the old flight calculators and nope.

Sierra Lund (19:53)

I'm happy with my little iPad and put it up on the airplane, do my weight and balance and go about my day. yeah, I mean, it's not going anywhere. I'm surprised that they're selling to be honest. I'm glad they're focused on what they need to be focused on though. And I think as long as they still have military contracts, they'll be fine.

Jessie Naor (20:01)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sierra Lund (20:14)

So they'll be fine.

Jessie Naor (20:15)

Yeah, they've had so many struggles. They're getting a lot of rid of a lot. I mean, we talked a couple weeks ago on the show about how they were probably moving away from their space business, now moving away from this. It's like they're trying to get really back to that core of being excellent at engineering and manufacturing, which we all think that they really need to do.

Sierra Lund (20:35)

Yeah, I mean, they haven't been in such a long time. mean, my whole lifetime they haven't been. So I think it's good because, you know, Airbus is, taking over that space and I would like it to be an American company that does it.

Jessie Naor (20:42)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, we need to have a strong aerospace manufacturing industry in this country. Unfortunately, because all of our eggs were in the Boeing basket, for large aircraft at least, we need to get them back in shape, hopefully. But we still have a very strong business aviation manufacturing sector, which is awesome. Embraer is making aircraft in the United States. We got Cessna, Textron. So that's good stuff.

Sierra Lund (20:57)

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, totally.

Yes.

No, I'm glad that the US is dominating that space, because I'm partial to our industry. I try not to pay attention too much to what happens in the commercial space.

Jessie Naor (21:25)

Yeah.

No, it's good for the whole economy. We have this conversation a lot in private aviation. We get all the negatives for it being luxury and expensive and all that stuff, but when you look at the ancillary jobs it creates, aerospace engineering jobs, manufacturing, design, parts components. These are really good jobs that produce a lot for the economy and people often don't like to look at that positive side of it when they're complaining about our emissions and other things.

Sierra Lund (22:00)

I can go on a rant about that, but.

Jessie Naor (22:00)

I know, that could be a whole episode in itself.

Sierra Lund (22:06)

Well, you can tell me that they're getting off on that, but yes, no, I totally agree with you. And they're high paying jobs. They're great. And honestly, you know, I'm partial. I'm an aircraft broker, so I get to talk to my clients and really see how they're utilizing their aircraft. And it's not all luxury. mean, it's really a necessity for some of these people and it allows them to not only produce more jobs in our industry, but produce more jobs in the entire economy.

Jessie Naor (22:25)

Mm-hmm.

Sierra Lund (22:36)

And I do think that that goes unnoticed. There's not too much good press about what this tool allows them to do. And also, they deserve to fly private with their family. So.

Jessie Naor (22:39)

Mm-hmm.

Right, I mean they may only get an hour a day to see them because they're working / the way their schedules work. Let them have some small luxuries.

Sierra Lund (22:56)

Totally. Well, it's something I love working with first time buyers too. And this is totally off topic, but I love working with first time buyers because you see how hard people work as an entrepreneur myself. mean, it's no small feat to be able to buy a $10 million airplane, whether it for your business or for your family. And so I love seeing what they've built. And I think it's a

Jessie Naor (23:22)

Mm-hmm.

Sierra Lund (23:25)

It is something that I really value that's not my commission check, but something that's almost more valuable than that is being able to see all of the jobs that they've produced outside of our industry and be able to pick their brain about how they did that. these aren't just, you know, trust fund kids that are flying to Cabo on the weekends. These are hardworking people that produce a lot for the economy.

Jessie Naor (23:32)

and

Sierra Lund (23:51)

And then obviously I love to see a new airplane buyer because that means our industry is growing too. So all good things. And when Boeing's doing bad press in the commercial side, maybe that pushes some more people to start chartering, which pushes more people to start buying. So all good

Jessie Naor (24:08)

True. Yeah, sometimes we get the leftovers in the commercial industry, but we'll take them. If it doesn't work for you, please come on over. But no, you're right. I think it's often, you know, we always look at the, it's the Kim Kardashians and the Diddies and all these other people that are flying private. A lot of our customers, you would never even know their names. know, we would never, you know, they're plumbing companies, flooring companies, you know, the blue collar.

Sierra Lund (24:12)

I love it. Give this a little bit of a shake.

Thank

Jessie Naor (24:34)

industries that fuel our economy, you know, these are the people building it and they made a little bit of money and it's a much more efficient way for them to travel. So they're going to do it.

Sierra Lund (24:44)

Yeah, totally. I had one of my first clients. He is so awesome. And he was really just a mechanic at first and built this whole business. And I got to go tour his machine shop. And I mean, it was incredible what they were building. And you could see how passionate he was about it. He never got to the point where he could buy an airplane until he sold his company.

He still got to run us through the facility and he's so passionate about it. And was like, you deserve to fly private. You deserve to have your PC-12 or your citation and take it easy with your family So it's pretty cool to see the behind the scenes and how it can be used as a tool for sure.

Jessie Naor (25:13)

Yes.

Yeah, we get to see the end of the American Dream or the peak of the American Dream form. which is really cool. Well, speaking of America and America's holidays, it is time for Thanksgiving travel, which is always a nightmare in our industry. But actually, sounds like so Tuesday this week was relatively quiet. The FAA Administrator, Michael Whitaker, he'd come out saying, hey, we have labor shortages and air traffic control.

We've got labor shortages at TSA potentially, so be prepared that you might run into some problems. I mean, thus far I'm hearing crickets so far, nothing too crazy. mean, have you heard of any big delays or anything?

Sierra Lund (26:03)

You would think that we would. I feel like every year it's like a panic. The first, the few days before Thanksgiving, but it's been all good. I saw on Instagram, I'm from Atlanta, so I fly out of Hartsfield all the time. And the TSA line was literally out the door down the sidewalks. Are you flying out of Hartsfield? That's probably not the greatest. Get there five hours early. But other than that,

Jessie Naor (26:27)

yeah.

Sierra Lund (26:29)

really smooth sailing, knock on wood.

Jessie Naor (26:32)

Yeah, hopefully it stays that way. So Sunday is supposed to be the busiest day. That's when everybody goes home after either the weekend and Black Friday shopping. So we'll see how Sunday goes, but at least so far, hopefully all right. Let's keep it that way. And hopefully charter is busy. You know, we're hoping for good numbers this season, so we'll see how that goes.

Sierra Lund (26:44)

I'm going to

And if it's a shit show on the commercial side, hop on over to the private side.

Jessie Naor (26:59)

Come on over, give us a call, we got capacity. Yeah, I mean, so many operators really make their numbers from this time to right past the, I would say like what, January 3rd. This is prime season, so I'm really curious to see what numbers we end up at the end of this year, given how charter's just been kind of slowing down the last couple years.

Sierra Lund (27:01)

Right. Let's wait.

Yeah.

Yeah, hopefully, hopefully things are on the rise again. We'll see.

Jessie Naor (27:28)

Yeah, I think so. I was a corporate jet investor a couple weeks ago. People are very optimistic, given the changes in the political scene. The economy has been significantly improving over the last couple years based on where we were. with any luck, there'll be more people entering private aviation and flying private aviation and keeping you busy.

Sierra Lund (27:50)

That's right. hope so. No, I really like focus on the optimism from US companies, which is really cool. Obviously, want global companies to do well, but the focus on US companies, hopefully there's a lot of new buyers and first time charter, know, charter clients, which would be awesome. You know, just building up the entrepreneurs in.

Jessie Naor (27:52)

You

Sierra Lund (28:14)

US. So hopefully that happens and they're not empty promises, but well, we shall see.

Jessie Naor (28:19)

Yeah, well, our tides are really contingent on the business world. You can look at private aviation compared to the markets and we go up and down as they go up and down and as entrepreneurs are building businesses and getting purchased, that's when they're moving to private aviation. So we need the M&A and the boost to the businesses so that we can be successful, because the two are closely tied together.

Sierra Lund (28:30)

Absolutely.

Yes.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Jessie Naor (28:46)

Thanks for joining us. The VIP seat isfastest way to get your news in private aviation. Don't forget to like and subscribe. We also have weekly digest email that goes out. It's each story that we cover in three sentences or less. if you don't have time to listen to a show, you can just quickly get your information that way. But comments and suggestions on what we should cover next are always welcome. And we'll see you next time on the VIP seat.