Elon wants the FAA Administrator Fired; private aviation comes to the rescue during Hurricane Helene

Jessie Naor (00:00)

Good morning and welcome to the VIP seat. Today is October 3rd and today's top stories include how Elon Musk is calling for the resignation of an FAA administrator and how private jets are coming to the rescue in

Your hosts today include yours truly,

Naor and our co-host Lee

Jessie Naor (00:16)

So sit back, buckle up and let's take off.

Jessie Naor (00:27)

Well, Lee, it's been quite week, especially in Western North Carolina and Georgia. As we all know, Hurricane Helene left some devastating damage there. Actually, my family members are in Asheville, so I'm particularly close to the problem. But they're fine, they're safe. Yes, they're good. No water, no electricity, it's chaos. And the amazing thing about this story, though, is the way that the private aviation industry, as usual, has just...

Lee Brewster (00:41)

Okay, I was about to ask, okay.

Jessie Naor (00:54)

dove in to take care of people. mean, after the first day, helicopters were being dispatched from people's backyards, charter companies everywhere to go pick up people, drop off supplies. Just makes you, love this industry, don't you? Just how we just come together in a time of need.

Lee Brewster (00:57)

Mm-hmm.

Yes. No, think, know, Jesse, it's

like you lose a little bit of faith in humanity lots of days, and then as destructive and as horrific and tragic as this is, it also kind of restores a little bit of faith in humanity. Because I think one of, you know, when you and I were talking about doing this and we're talking about what's going on, I live in Texas, and you know,

down in the Gulf of Mexico, Louisiana, there a lot of things happening. You have the Cajun Navy and you have all these things. Now we have the Rancher Navy in Texas. Those things. But I was thinking about how technology and aviation, it's been

us to really become... You used to be dependent on our military.

the government because they had the infrastructure and lots of times the communication

to be able to pull all these resources together to be able to coordinate complex logistic drops everything like that but now with you know with your iPhone and social media with even with all the bad here's the goods you know you're able to coordinate these massive

Jessie Naor (02:15)

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (02:20)

efforts in

in hours. mean, you know, there's the there were people lining up and waiting to help just as soon as somebody would let them in. Stacey Heard she's a helicopter pilot on LinkedIn. I've met her a few times,

Jessie Naor (02:23)

Great.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Brewster (02:32)

I love watching her her feed during a lot of this. was like, you know, it's once again, it's reaching out to your network and who has helicopters, pilots, whatever you're going. You know, here's our designated drops, whatever you're going, no matter where you went in any of our social media sphere.

Jessie Naor (02:47)

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (02:47)

there's somebody coordinating something. Whether it was 172s flying in, whether it was the private jets, whether it was the helicopters, the drones. You know, I've been watching the drones dropping insulin, dropping food, going back and just doing a little bit of recon with video, trying to figure out where people are. mean, just the massive amount of support that you can coordinate

Jessie Naor (02:57)

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (03:12)

in a moment's notice now.

Jessie Naor (03:14)

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (03:14)

and of course then the human element of the willingness of people to drop everything to go and help. But now they actually have a means to help.

Jessie Naor (03:20)

Yeah, was right. Yeah, then didn't didn't bat an eye in the process. mean, I was amazed. So I lost contact with my father Friday morning was the last time we'd spoken to him, nine a.m. And it was coming up on Saturday night. And I was like.

Lee Brewster (03:32)

Mm-hmm.

Jessie Naor (03:37)

Okay, if I don't get a hold of him, I know people with helicopters and airplanes, I'm gonna figure out how to get down there and find my dad. But it was amazing to watch all of this

Lee Brewster (03:41)

Hahaha!

Yes.

Jessie Naor (03:46)

online because there's Reddit and there's the Facebooks and everything else. And all of a sudden, everyone starts pulling these resources and data into these cloud documents. I had submitted my dad to this missing persons list and they didn't check on him until yesterday.

Lee Brewster (03:56)

Mm-hmm.

Jessie Naor (04:03)

That kind of crazy. That was with the local government offices. But I'm seeing people that were in severe need, like people that needed medical care, needed

bottles. mean, the Cajun Navy and this Operation Airdrop was the one where they had 37 helicopters show up on Monday to rescue people. I think many more lives were saved than even the normal government response to this, just because the use of technology and private aircraft.

Lee Brewster (04:16)

yes.

would agree. Private aircraft and not a whole lot of red tape. it lets

and I mean, in understanding, sometimes I think we do look at, like FEMA and some of the governmental agencies, and you expect an immediate response, but that's not necessarily how that works. That's not how they do it. no matter how bad you would want them to in some cases, it's just not what happens. But the ability of the private sector to be able to coordinate that and

Jessie Naor (04:42)

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (04:55)

work with the government, even though there were some government officials like, I think there was that one pilot who was threatened to be arrested. He tried to go back and get more people. But you know, even what is it the, wings for wings for hope wings for the, that, goes in and rescues animals.

Jessie Naor (05:13)

yes.

Lee Brewster (05:14)

They were down in Valdosta,

they, they, I think they 64, 66 dogs or something that they rescued brought them up here to North Texas. So, I mean, it doesn't, the humans, the people that, I don't know. It's to me, like I said, it's one of those things that just kind of a little reinforces, your faith in humanity for the way people kind of come together and take, take care of this. And even the cleanup, cause now you're seeing like there was the initial rescue, but now you're seeing the people going in and you know, how do you clean it up? You know, dropping off generators so they can.

Jessie Naor (05:37)

Right.

Lee Brewster (05:43)

start

down the trees, getting the supplies to where they need the support for the people. It's getting in there by helicopter, because that's about the

Jessie Naor (05:44)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and

Lee Brewster (05:53)

way you can do it.

Jessie Naor (05:54)

the only way right now. mean, I'm really familiar with this territory, I used to live there, but I mean, you're talking about, these are old mountain roads. A lot of these communities have been completely cut off and isolated. And even these private helicopter teams, they're bringing in communication tools to the local EMS and search and rescue teams that can't communicate. it's amazing to see. And it's just one of those things, like I think our industry really needs to grab ahold of this and make sure that we're, you know.

Lee Brewster (05:55)

Yeah.

Yes.

no.

Jessie Naor (06:19)

getting some credit for the very important work that we do because sometimes we get a lot of slack in the other industries.

Lee Brewster (06:22)

what, yeah, well it's like a friend of mine always says, he's like, know, a lot of times private aviation's just a little bit too private.

And not to diminish anything that's happening in Florida, but Florida's kind of used to a little bit of this. You know, they kind of have a plan in place. They have an emergency

Jessie Naor (06:31)

Okay.

them.

Lee Brewster (06:39)

plan. You know, they kind of know, and the governor referred to that a little bit, but I just look at, I look at like the Asheville area, that whole area, and I'm like, this is not, this is not anything that anybody's ever experienced or prepared for. I mean, a flash flood maybe, but not like that.

Jessie Naor (06:53)

But not prepared at all.

Lee Brewster (06:57)

any case. Yeah.

Jessie Naor (06:56)

Yeah, I mean, we've had flooding. That's typical, but for complete roads to be washed out in ways, it's like nothing we've seen. Yeah, town's gone, completely gone. But it's very proud of the work that our industry is doing. And I know they're going to keep...

Lee Brewster (07:05)

And town's Yep.

It's fun to watch.

Jessie Naor (07:14)

Yeah, we're going to keep doing it for as long as it takes until we can get people reconnected with their communities and it's good.

Lee Brewster (07:20)

no, absolutely. I think it'll be interesting though, like you said, Jessie, the kind of a little bit of the promotion. You know, during Katrina and some of our other really, you know, the horrific disasters we've had, there were boots on the ground with video, but it's a lot different. We're actually like experiencing a lot of this in real time. So when we go back here, there'll probably be a documentary or something done here within the next six months or a year. It'll be really interesting to go back and see how all these efforts were coordinated and actually what the story is as we're going forward.

Jessie Naor (07:38)

Thank

right. So in our next story, we've covered quite a bit of this just because aviation Wi-Fi is quickly evolving, given the rise of

And it's challenged a lot of people and made a lot of people think about different things.

Lee Brewster (08:04)

Mm-hmm.

Jessie Naor (08:04)

We know that SmartSky has recently gone into business and this week GoGo has announced that it's acquiring SATCOM Direct in a very, I think, great move for them because now this puts them not only in the air-to-ground systems, they've got a partnership with the Low Earth Orbit satellites and now also Geo satellites. So they're turning into quite

Lee Brewster (08:23)

Mm-hmm.

Jessie Naor (08:24)

mega multi-provider of aircraft communications, which is pretty cool.

Lee Brewster (08:28)

no, I mean it's funny though, it's funny that this happened because it wasn't too, a month ago, maybe less, you you started hearing some rumblings about some other possible interest in Satcom Direct from some other ones. GoGo was not one of the ones I was hearing about. It was definitely some of the other players and I was...

Jessie Naor (08:44)

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (08:46)

So this one caught me a little surprised, that's not one of the names that I had been, I mean, it makes sense once they said it. And you're like, well, this, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense for their portfolio, for their services that they're covering. But it wasn't the name that I heard a couple of months ago. So I was kind of half expecting an announcement probably before the end of the year, but it would have been more along the lines of one of the other big players. So.

Jessie Naor (09:07)

Well, what I think would be amazing to see too, and I don't know what their business

is for this exactly, but if they have one antenna that could literally switch from any of these types of communications devices, I mean, they really have a unique, unique product. They were getting more competition from Smart Sky with Starlink coming in, they were losing some competitive edge, but man, if you've got

one device and it can take off, and I don't know if that's what they're actually going to do with it,

Lee Brewster (09:33)

Yeah, it'll be interesting because like you said, you know, now they cover all the way, know, ATG, Leo, Geo, all the way where they're going. how does that, and I'm kind of curious about how does that work for like the customer experience as well? You know, where are we going with the

experience? you know, most people, as they get their aircraft, they start in one, get a little bit bigger, go a little higher, go a little higher, go a little higher.

Jessie Naor (09:56)

I'm going

Lee Brewster (09:57)

And so, you know, the ability for, be able for that customer experience to be pretty consistent across that, as well as bringing a lot of, you know, I think about a lot about like some of a SD, you know, in their government contracts and stuff. So what's that going to do to build, bring some of that technology, maybe a little faster? Maybe with the go-go backing. I don't really know. You know, they've, they've done a great job on there. I mean, it's a great company and it's, but it will be, I like both companies. got both great, great products.

Jessie Naor (10:12)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lee Brewster (10:24)

But I'm curious about how they're gonna integrate and if it's,

I mean, does SD just become GoGo? What's gonna happen to the CWC? Are you still gonna have your CWC? Yeah, I mean, are you still gonna have your Connect with Customers conferences? What's gonna happen?

Jessie Naor (10:29)

Yeah, I mean, they were the acquirer, so yeah.

What's gonna

I think you're in the aircraft sales business and you understand this too. Like sometimes there's been the dispute of, if you're

buying an aircraft from overseas, it's equipped with the ATG system, it's kind of useless to you in Europe. So I'm also wondering, I guess this could open up more value proposition too for the customer that if it's equipped with this equipment that could work globally or locally in whatever capacity they want, there's a good selling point there.

Lee Brewster (10:48)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

the more flexibility you have with your equipment, mean, it's win-win for everybody. It's a win for the manufacturer,

a win for the customer, it's a win for the support.

maybe a little bit more of a commitment to go-go, like on the business aviation side and really kind of what are they doing? How are they supporting business aviation as well? And instead of trying to compete, we'll just.

Jessie Naor (11:28)

Mm-hmm.

Lee Brewster (11:29)

Well, just buy. mean, sometimes that makes it, especially if it fits. mean, it doesn't, if it fits with what your long-term plans are, you take something successful and let's keep, let's just keep running with it. And, know, two companies

their reputation for innovation and where they're going. mean, it'll be interesting to see over the next couple of years. And it'll also be interesting to see how some of the other players out there start, start responding to this.

Jessie Naor (11:52)

Well, that's been, mean, Gogo, they are responding to the Starlink pressure. You know, there was smart sky pressure, which is now no longer really an issue for them. But I think the whole time they've really argued, we're the leader in business aviation. We know these customers better than anybody else. Not that they only have business aviation customers, obviously they have other ones. But I think that's, what their key competitive point is. Okay, now, especially with Satcom, like this is our domain and...

Lee Brewster (11:58)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Jessie Naor (12:17)

Starlink serving all of these residential customers, these business customers, that's not us. We're focused on the sky and this is what we do. So, good for them.

Lee Brewster (12:22)

Mm-hmm.

No, yeah, it'll be interesting. They're battling a little things with some obsolescence with their ATG stuff, but they have a plan in place. but I think it makes sense. think sometimes you see acquisitions and you don't really understand how it fits into their business plan, model, or future. But I do think that this one kind of made sense when you looked at it.

Jessie Naor (12:47)

was $375 million in cash, customary to some adjustments and 5 million shares of GoGo stock. I think I heard someone say this is up to a $600 million deal at the end of the day. And they're not planning on having their Leo satellite service launched until spring of 2025. So this will open up some other options for satellite communications in the meantime for their existing customers.

Lee Brewster (12:56)

Right.

no, absolutely. Gosh, can you believe that it's almost spring of 2025? What the heck? No. goodness gracious. It's right around the corner.

Jessie Naor (13:12)

No, when did that happen? Who knew that NBAA would be happening so soon, which is a great transition to the next story, because that's coming up soon. So you'll be there, yeah?

Lee Brewster (13:21)

There you go, it's exactly.

I know, it's, yes I will. I will be there. I will be there wandering around. Going, it's got some meetings set up. Definitely going to go see some new faces, but then some catching up with some of the old familiar faces and as you think about it, it's been, you start thinking these shows, especially the big ones like this, it's like, I've been doing this a long time. So you're like, whoa, there's a lot of people. Time goes by, it flies.

Jessie Naor (13:44)

The time goes by. Yeah, I mean, it really does. Yeah, this will be my first time missing this show and I don't even know how long. I mean, it's been maybe 15 years. It just didn't work out for me this year. But I'm not the only one because apparently Textron's no longer going to be there. They just announced that last week. This is the third big OEM to not show up. Gulfstream and Dassault Falcon already said that they weren't going to be there either.

Lee Brewster (13:57)

Yeah.

No? Yeah?

Jessie Naor (14:11)

So man, this show is changing significantly.

Lee Brewster (14:15)

Yeah really is. mean, well Gulfstream wasn't there last year. I mean, they had already kind of chosen a little bit of a different path last year. But Falcon decided they weren't going this year. then, like Textron's interesting though to me a little bit because

Jessie Naor (14:18)

Great.

Lee Brewster (14:29)

it was just now decided that. So, I mean, is that more of a shift in where they're putting their marketing dollars or is it more a response to what's going on in Wichita right now?

Jessie Naor (14:32)

Thank

Lee Brewster (14:40)

you know, what is that one? it is definitely the shows changing and evolving. I'm, can't keep blaming things on COVID anymore, but you know, when, things changed after COVID, you know, and

Jessie Naor (14:49)

Thank you.

Lee Brewster (14:52)

It's got a much more like a B2B feel. mean, when I go, looking, there's not really, I don't see a lot of my operator friends there. I see a lot of my vendors, like, you know, who is it is that, that support us. And you know, you can get any, any, any of your vendors are there. I don't see as many operators there, kind of, it's really kind of hit or miss, but I wonder, but I don't know exactly how they, how they're responding. I mean, it's still a great show. I mean, you go, there's a lot, the educational

Jessie Naor (14:54)

Mm-hmm.

Great.

Lee Brewster (15:19)

great.

You still see a lot of people, but it's definitely evolving. So it's going to be interesting how NBAA responds to this and how they change it. mean, is this something where without the big manufacturers, it's kind of hard to have the static? I mean, so.

Jessie Naor (15:36)

Yeah, well, that's why, you know, it bums me up because that

always, I always saved one day for static display just like, you let me go see the latest and greatest, see what everybody's got rolling out or, you know, how does this fit into the lineup and really to visually see the difference in, okay, the

Lee Brewster (15:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Jessie Naor (15:51)

versus this one. And you know, really when you're there in person comparing them all. So, but at the same time, I mean, I think at this point, most of these manufacturers are sold out.

Lee Brewster (15:52)

Right. Yeah.

Jessie Naor (16:00)

You know, it's like what, you're sending all these salespeople here to sell what exactly? Because it's not like they can buy it on the spot. I mean, they can make deals, but it's going to take some time.

Lee Brewster (16:02)

Right.

No, absolutely. You may start a deal there.

There's very few times you're going to start a deal and close a deal in that three days. There's too many... You may get a handshake on something like that, maybe. to me, it's more about solidifying business opportunities or solidifying relationships.

maybe starting a new one, but it's not gonna necessarily, I don't necessarily see it as a show where you close a deal. And especially from start to

Jessie Naor (16:26)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (16:34)

Nobody's gonna start to finish that in three days. Or very few people,

Jessie Naor (16:38)

and you make a good point too. I mean, I Textron, you know, they're looking at a strike that could cost the company up to $300 million, so might just be tightening the belt this year, and maybe it really isn't related to, know, maybe the marketing team for the airplanes didn't like the idea, but they got they had to pick it anyway.

Lee Brewster (16:48)

Yeah.

There's a little bit of a, there's an optics thing where you're on strike and never gonna send the whole team out to Vegas for a few days. Yeah, know, there could be, there's dollars, optics. So it'd be interesting to understand a little bit more about why that decision was made. Because you know, do have a, Textron to me though is also a little unique because of the variety of aircraft that they're able to bring to the table when they come to a show. I mean, it's not just one. I mean, you know, they could, I mean, just in,

Jessie Naor (17:02)

don't know.

Yeah, no, mean, the helicopters, different line of products, it's a very diverse company.

Lee Brewster (17:24)

Yeah, you know, you-

No, absolutely. but it will be kind of interesting like after everything calms down a little bit, because of their, their unique position right now. So, but I'm looking forward to it.

Jessie Naor (17:36)

Yeah, and mean hands down, it's still the best aviation show each year. You know, it's no question. Yeah.

Lee Brewster (17:41)

absolutely. No, absolutely. I'm looking forward to it. Sorry to say that you won't be there, but I'll just have to go down to Florida, harass you in Florida, when you get back down there.

Jessie Naor (17:50)

That's right. And you guys have fun in my honor. Be like, got a Jessie's here in spirit.

Lee Brewster (17:53)

We will, okay, you know what? I will, I will make sure. We will make sure and have, we'll give a toast to you, Jessie.

Jessie Naor (17:59)

Thank you. So in our next story, this is not really

Lee Brewster (18:00)

Make sure.

Jessie Naor (18:05)

information, but I just thought it was a good time to follow up on what's going on in California and generally all over. So the recent Federal Aviation Authorization Act, as well as California, is basically leading to the point of the end of leaded avgas, which for those who don't know, powers the vast majority of airplanes that are out there, all piston powered airplanes that are out there.

Lee Brewster (18:10)

Mm-hmm.

Jessie Naor (18:27)

So California says beginning in 2031, which is when the FAA claims that it will have the solution up and running and ready to go, that leaded avgas will be outlawed. Now, it's such a tricky question because the FAA is saying, okay, we already have an alternative fuel

authorized, but there's some advocacy groups that aren't happy with that fuel. This is a very, very tricky topic and

I just don't see how this is going to happen. I guess it will. but still seems like a big mountain.

Lee Brewster (18:59)

It's what six years? Six years away. Yeah. No, it's I mean, and that's kind of, you know, when I look at some of this stuff, I look at it and I mean, you do have to have a date because if you don't have a date, nothing gets done. I get that. But.

Jessie Naor (19:03)

keep track. It's like not far at all. Yeah.

Lee Brewster (19:15)

when you're looking at some of these dates and you're looking at the volume and you know, I think that, you know, the STC versus the ASTM standard. that way, you know, where, where is this going to meet? to me, that's one of the most kind of like that little sub sub story in here on when you're going through that and how is that, how is that going to be addressed? Because how do get the volume? How do you get the volume of fuel needed to support light GA?

Jessie Naor (19:24)

Thank you.

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (19:42)

in the United States.

Jessie Naor (19:43)

And that's the chicken and the egg situation right now. The FBOs are like, hey, yes, the FAA has approved this fuel, but because it hasn't gone through those international standards that we're used to having, we don't have the liability protection that we need if this fuel does something bad to your airplane. So I can understand where they're coming from.

Lee Brewster (19:57)

Right.

Jessie Naor (20:03)

But at the same time, we can't just turn off the tap, because then we lose all of general aviation, we lose flight training, we lose everything. Something has to give at some point. is the DOT going to come out with liability protections for the airfields? I don't know.

Lee Brewster (20:10)

Yes!

Well, yeah, absolutely. And you you look at it and

you know, they're like, well, it's only, it's only this much more per gallon.

General light GA is becoming so expensive. They all add up and you know, you're just putting in another, are you putting in another barrier to entry when we're already having issues with finding pilots, where we're already having issues with finding mechanics, everything like that. And you have to start at the bottom. You can't have our aviation industry without a good solid light GA base.

Jessie Naor (20:29)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Brewster (20:50)

Because like you said, you can't have flight schools. They're not going to jump straight into some, you know, some complex twin engine, turbine powered something, something they got, you know, those little one fifties have to run on something. I think you look at it and you know, even small, small things keep adding up as far as like price, you know, the cost. I mean, I got an ad, it was a nice airplane, but you know, you look at a 172 that was, I think it was five or six years old and it was, it was $500,000.

Jessie Naor (20:51)

Right.

No. Right.

Mm hmm.

Lee Brewster (21:18)

And you're like, what are you doing to do that? Not that necessarily that's what they're concerned about, but those are the things that I think about. So what is your plan to make it not only accessible, but you well you just switch it out. Okay, well switch it out in my pocketbook too. When I'm going to go fill up my tank, make it the same. What are you gonna do to do that? And how is that gonna work? And how are you gonna do that if you're only

Jessie Naor (21:35)

Right.

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (21:43)

you you look at the standards, you're talking about the standards in the manufacturing capacity, when you only have maybe one or two manufacturers, how are you going to meet that need? So it's going to be interesting, and six years is not far away.

Jessie Naor (21:54)

No, it is not at all. What you're saying about flight training, mean, look, we already have a huge gap in who can go to flight training just because of the sheer cost. It's so expensive. And if your fuel is 10 % more expensive, that's just another person who can't get into the cockpit. We can't diversify our pilot pool because we can't, no one from a certain socioeconomic status can afford to fly a Cessna 172 to get the hours they need to be a commercial pilot. It's a big, tricky ball of...

Lee Brewster (22:02)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Absolutely.

Jessie Naor (22:23)

a mess right now. I

Lee Brewster (22:24)

people smarter than me that'll figure it out, much smarter than me. But you know, it's like, I look at it and kind like you said, Jessie, the cost per, mean, flight schools already operate on such a low margins. Their margins are very small on what they're doing anyway. That's not one of the most lucrative businesses out there. And now you're just adding another stressor and now you are once again,

Jessie Naor (22:41)

Yeah.

Lee Brewster (22:47)

putting in another barrier for people to entry when they're trying to maybe get that, whether they're going 61, whether they're going through a 141

whatever that is, it's just another reason. And right while things are starting to get up, now maybe they will have a good answer. And maybe there are some people who will kind of take it and run with it. okay, which is a good segue into our next little topic because one of the great disruptors of our...

Jessie Naor (22:55)

Yeah.

personal.

Lee Brewster (23:15)

time as well as our

right now. He's Elon Musk. Maybe he'll figure out an answer over here over the next few years. I mean, I don't know.

Jessie Naor (23:18)

Yeah.

I mean, he's going to have to. But yeah, it's like Elon is, he's constantly in our news, which I mean, he likes the aviation, he likes the technology, I get it. But now he's calling for Michael Whitaker, the new FA administrator, new, I mean, he's been there for a year, but that's still pretty new given the size of the organization, I would say. But he's very perturbed with Mr. Whitaker after his US House Committee

Lee Brewster (23:30)

Yeah.

That's new!

Jessie Naor (23:46)

transportation testimony.

So Whitaker and the FAA generally have levied about $630,000 in fines on SpaceX because they have not complied with launch requirements on the last two missions. Now there's some back and forth. I can't tell you I've read the entire back and forth because it's quite complex, especially a, know, SpaceX is saying what you're asking us to do is frivolous and we shouldn't have to pay

Lee Brewster (24:05)

That's right.

Jessie Naor (24:10)

And all of us who've worked with the FAA for the last 30 years go, welcome to the club.

Lee Brewster (24:15)

Welcome to the FAA. Yeah. Welcome, welcome.

Jessie Naor (24:17)

Like, just do what they say. And pay the fines. So yeah, so he wants him fired.

Lee Brewster (24:22)

Yeah. think that might be a little, that might be a little drastic, you know, getting him fired, but maybe by getting him fired, maybe calling for him to be fired, you know, bringing some more light into some of these

you know, the alleged noncompliance and you know, there's, you know, I talk, I talk a lot about this. It's one of my favorite little topics to start and then let other people vent about.

cause I don't, I don't know as much, but it is one of those things is where you're, when you're talking about compliance, whose interpretation, you know, we, we get that a lot. Whose interpretation of compliance and I can just, I mean, just imagine the complexity of, of, compliance that we have with, with our regular operations. Now you throw space in

Jessie Naor (24:53)

Okay.

Lee Brewster (25:07)

Can you even imagine the number of different interpretations and

what they have going on and how they're trying to adapt to what's going on with space.

Jessie Naor (25:17)

Right, and regulations that aren't even potentially written yet because it's so unknown, know, commercial space travel. Right.

Lee Brewster (25:22)

Exactly. So is it just guidance? Is it guidance? Is it a regulation? So, you know, when you're looking at the alleged compliance, I can definitely see what you don't even know what I'm supposed to be complying with. I mean, you're asking me something that you didn't even tell me that I was supposed to comply with in some cases. So, I mean, where are you going with this? Like I said, I didn't read it all either. I started reading it. I was like, I need a Cliff Notes.

Jessie Naor (25:32)

there.

Right.

I need an expert in this.

Lee Brewster (25:46)

version of this and I may have a conversation with somebody that explains this to me as we're going through but I do think that you know he's a disruptor he doesn't do things the way that everybody expects him to I mean Starlink and Starlink on the airplanes on aircraft I mean he has not followed the traditional business model of doing that he has not you know he does and I know not everybody will agree with me and I don't think it's

But I think that it's good. I like people who come in and, well, why did I have to do it that way? No.

Jessie Naor (26:14)

Yeah, well, that's the only way you come up with new ideas is the questioning, you know, and it's, and truly, I mean, I am sure, look, I

Lee Brewster (26:18)

Right, absolutely.

Jessie Naor (26:23)

two schools of thought, like the FAA's job is safety, that's their only focus, that's what they should do, but they are a large bureaucratic organization and they don't move quickly, you know, so like, so how do you advance space technology at a quick pace with that as your safety infrastructure?

Lee Brewster (26:32)

No.

Jessie Naor (26:40)

But I did think it was interesting because what occurs specifically, and this is very much in line with what the FAA is working on right now, he said he wanted SpaceX to prioritize creating a safety management system and a whistleblower program. And that's

2.0 right now. Everything has to have an SMS. The FAA is going to have an SMS. Everybody needs this system of reporting and understanding. So he's got a good point. If they don't have SMS and whistleblower protections in place yet, that should be a priority.

Lee Brewster (26:55)

Right. I... Yes.

Those are basics. yeah, those, mean, I don't know. If I was starting a program like his, that would just kind of be something that you just do. I mean, if you're, you you

Jessie Naor (27:16)

Mm-hmm.

Lee Brewster (27:17)

in somebody who understands the industry as well as the regulatory environment, you know, SMS, it's kind of a no brainer. I mean, about 10, 15 years ago, people were still arguing about it, but you know, now this is kind of a no brainer. And, you know, I think it is, it's a little bit of an interesting.

interesting dynamic with some of the experimental side of it versus with the actual application side of it. he's making us think about things a little differently, but at the same time, can't, I can't, you can't, you can't begrudge Whitaker's stance on safety and a whistleblower. And especially, think one of things we talked about was,

Jessie Naor (27:47)

it.

Great. Yeah.

Lee Brewster (27:53)

especially with the things that have been going on with Boeing, granted that's a little bit much different situation, much different product. However, there's still a lot, there's still a lot

that I think we can all keep learning from, regardless of what it is. It's a best practice, maybe it's more of a, even if you didn't see it as a regulatory compliance issue, it is a best practice for something that you're doing at this level with this technology and with the risk associated it, why would you not have an SMS?

Jessie Naor (28:05)

Yeah, well.

Yeah, well, and it's something too. look at the FAA, you know, and as a former operator, I was like, FAA, you know, why are they, never get anything right. But at the same time, like they're constantly ripped in two different directions on one, you know, shoulder. They have Congress yelling at them about, you didn't oversee Boeing enough. Why did you let them get away with that? And then they're like, why did you let a Starlink do whatever they want to do? SpaceX, you know, like it's like, I know they're just trying to figure it out between the two, I guess. So it's not easy stuff.

Lee Brewster (28:31)

Thank

Hahaha!

Like divorced parents. It's the poor kid in the middle trying to figure out how to do it. Yeah. But, I think Whitaker's overall, I would say he's doing a pretty good job with the reauthorization. It's nice to know he's gonna be there for, or he should be there for a little while unless Elon gets his way. But it's not, I don't know. I think you're.

Jessie Naor (28:48)

Move faster, slower. Right? Yeah.

Thank

Elon says a lot of things, come on.

Lee Brewster (29:06)

think it'll be fine, but I do think I was funny, Jessie, when we were looking at this. was like, wow, we can talk about Elon in everything that we've talked about today. He's completely gone through. Starlink's been dropped out in the hurricane ravaged areas all over the Appalachian Mountains down to Georgia and everything there. He's a little bit of everywhere.

Jessie Naor (29:18)

I am.

mean, he's truly,

is our modern day Howard Hughes. He is our Rockefeller. I mean, when it comes to, and we're in the aviation transportation industry and this is a big part of his passions, and our passions. So he's gonna continue to be a disruptor and a conversation

Lee Brewster (29:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jessie Naor (29:47)

constantly on this podcast, just given the content.

Lee Brewster (29:49)

I think so. I don't think you're going to be able to get around it on a lot of things. you know, like I said, over the years, it's always the people who have done things just a little bit different. Let me even go back. Jim Jensen at an SD. I mean, you look at the disruptors in the industry. He was one, you know, when he started Satcom Direct. I mean, you know, there's a, you know, there's a little, there's some people that are on the ground, boots on the ground over there.

Jessie Naor (30:07)

Okay.

Lee Brewster (30:18)

helping people out who really don't care what the local authorities are gonna say. They're gonna go and help and protect people and they'll worry about the consequences later. Yeah, we're gonna do these things.

Jessie Naor (30:25)

Yeah, and I think a jury of their peers would agree with them.

Lee Brewster (30:30)

Absolutely think a jury and their peers would agree with them if not a volunteer I can go up there do that But I think you know that is that is there and so I mean it's one of the beautiful things about our industry and business aviation I talk about that when I'm trying to explain

Maybe the younger people or people don't necessarily understand it I said, you know, it's it's an industry that allows for a lot of entrepreneurial spirit It's hard work. It's a hard hard work and it's a very regulated industry But there's a lot of opportunity

Jessie Naor (30:53)

Mm-hmm.

Lee Brewster (30:58)

here to really do some wonderful

things.

Jessie Naor (31:01)

Absolutely. Well, with that, we're going to wrap up our podcast today.

love to keep it short and sweet on your morning commute so you can get all your top news as soon

you need to. Thanks again, Lee, for being with us today. Don't forget to subscribe to our weekly newsletter

Lee Brewster (31:10)

You

Always, always.

Jessie Naor (31:17)

as well that comes out and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. So thanks again for joining us. Questions and comments are always welcome And have a good day.